#4
Air Date: 11/26/2019

End of Windows 7 & Why You Probably Need New Computers

LISTEN TO THE SHOW
Learn More About Managed IT Services

Why It's Time to Upgrade Windows 7 & Get a New Computer

Transcription

Dan: And good morning. It's 8:30 Dan Diamond sitting in the studio with you. Usually I'm sitting here yucking to myself, but this morning we've got Bit-Wizards in for the Tip of the Spear show this morning. First off, Louis hello how are you doing this morning?

Louis: Dan I'm doing great.

Dan: Good. Glad to hear that. Also, what about you Sam?

Sam: I am doing very well Dan, it's good to be back here with you again this week.

Dan: Yeah, you missed last week, huh?

Sam: I missed being on the show, but I did not miss the show. I was at an airport in Sacramento, California listening to the show on the internet.

Dan: Yup. I heard you were on the road working. And that's a good thing. So you guys ready for Thanksgiving?

Louis: Absolutely.

Dan: Are you? What are you guys going to do for your Thanksgiving dinner? What about you Sam?

Sam: Well, I'm originally from England and so I didn't celebrate Thanksgiving growing up, I moved to the States. I didn't know what to do. So at first I just sort of volunteered with the homeless ministries and help feed them. And then I met my wife and we went to Southern Mississippi for Thanksgiving for the first time and immediately I was like, " Forget the homeless from here on out, I'm doing Thanksgiving in Mississippi, deep fried turkey, camp pie, pumpkin pie." This is an American tradition I have willingly, gladly brought upon myself. I would not miss it for the world now.

Dan: Oh heck yeah. What about you Louis? I'm going to bring that mic just a little closer.

Louis: A little closer.

Dan: Yes sir.

Louis: So going to my niece's in-laws, so they're great people from Crestview Jason, Laura, Cruz, and looking forward to letting them do the cooking and cleaning while I watch the game. Did I say that out loud?

Dan: Yeah, you did. And they probably heard you too. And then that's okay. Well, let's get to it. Shall we?

Announcer: Bit-Wizards, bits and bytes?

Dan: What's going on this morning?

Sam: Well, I guess I'll kick this off. There's a quite a lot of things happening in the news. We always try to pick one or two things that are happening right now. Of course. Probably one of the big ones is the Black Friday sales coming up this week. So we could probably touch on that a little bit later as well about what to look for if you are going to try to get some deals. But one of the big pieces of news that people are sort of pushing back against and you may or may not be aware of it, but as all of the end of this year, so we're only talking about six or seven weeks now. Windows 7 will no longer be a thing. It won't be available anymore. I even had at my church, I had someone come up to me this week and say, " I'm buying a new computer but I'm going to ask you if I can get it with Windows 7 on there." And I said, " Well you're just not going to be able to right now because Microsoft has officially announced the end of Windows 7 and the end of Office 2010."

Dan: When does that take place? January something?

Sam: January? Yeah, right at the beginning of January. First half of January.

Dan: Because I bought Windows 7 myself. So that means I got a change?

Sam: Yes.

Dan: Oh well because like we talked about I think a couple of weeks ago, when that takes place then all those that are trying to break into your computer are going to be able to really focus in on Windows 7 because since it's not going to be supported anymore by Windows, well or Microsoft. So now all the bad guys are going to find all the weaknesses and they can zero in on that and really hammer you. Is that kind of idea?

Louis: Yeah, absolutely. So vulnerabilities are discovered as different situations and using the operating system. And of course Microsoft will go and patch those when they're supporting that persistence. Well they'll no longer support it, even if it's a known vulnerability that is simply out of life. So they won't do anything about it. And the longer it's out end of life, the more likely people who have found vulnerabilities so that they can exploit.

Dan: Now let's just back up a little bit. So you have Windows 7 like I do. How difficult is it to upgrade to windows 10 you have to completely change your operating system?

Sam: It's relatively easy actually. You can do it from within Windows 7 you can just go online and say, " I'd like to download Windows 10." It's a $100 upgrade for in place exactly as you have it and you can absolutely just install it as is. However, there are advantages to wiping the computer and starting over because there's a lot of just crud that builds up over years and it starts to slow your computer down, but there's also a case to be made for the fact that Windows 7 is now 10 years old, which is pretty old in the world of computers. And so if your computer shipped with Windows 7 it may actually be a better conversation to say, " Should I spend 100 bucks getting Windows 10 and go through all that kerfuffle or should I just consider buying a new PC at this point in time because the other one is probably already a little bit older. And if I buy a new one, it already comes with Windows 10 installed." And at this point any new PCs you buy are going to come with windows 10 already on them.

Dan: Yeah, most likely you're going to have a better operating system, like an I4, I5 or I7 and you might only have like an I3 or something like that. So exactly the idea, I suppose everything is newer, it's more upgraded and you're going to be able to get on the internet and things will just run smoother for you I would assume.

Louis: Absolutely. And with the new power in the machines and whatnot in the new operating system be able to take advantage of a lot more. And if you're looking at something over five years old and like Sam said, I mean Windows 7 has been out for 10 years is probably a good idea to just simply replace the machine.

Dan: Man. It makes me feel like mine's ancient. So what would you recommend, when you replace hard drives, your full computer, how long do the hard drives last in your computer without you thinking, with your windows 10 probably going to be a more sophisticated, how often would you work amend the upgrades? Because I know you do that periodically with the businesses that you support. You go on an idea and, " Okay this is getting outdated, let's update this." Is it just go on the need or is there kind of a rule of thumb?

Sam: That is a great question and there are some rules of thumb there for a PC, for just a normal workstation, whether it's a laptop or desktop, we'll always say you should expect to get about three years of life out of thing. And so as you're budgeting, as you're pricing this out, you should look at it and sort of divide that cost by 36 months and say this is about how much it cost me per month and be ready after the end of three years to already think about replacing that device. Now you might get a fourth year out of it. You might even get a fifth year out of it, but you're actually usually not saving any money by dragging it out a little bit longer. In fact, statistically the cost of owning a PC that is over four, five years old is usually about $2, 300 a year more than it is just to go ahead and replace that device. Because by the time you do decide to replace it, the cost of buying all of the things you need to do to get back up to date again actually typically exceeds the cost of just staying up to date as you go. So about three years for a workstation for servers, typically you get a little bit longer out of that. So if you're a business running servers, you can expect to get five, six years out of those servers before having to think about replacing those. Unfortunately, those are significantly higher cost items.

Louis: It's almost $2, 400 was from a Microsoft study, took into account productivity loss. The downtime as you're trying to... The maintenance that you're doing on the computer versus simply buying the new ones so you don't have these problems.

Dan: Oh, that makes sense too because I know from personal experience with our 15 year old computers that we have that it takes forever to just get your job done because it takes so long for change from one page to the other. And that's the productivity. I'm sure you're talking about parties anyway, right?

Louis: Right. Not the cost necessarily of the machine you're just linked holding onto. But the loss in productivity, the time you might need to have an IT person go. We find a lot of places that we ended up going in to provide managed services. They've been limping along. Often what happens, it's the top grade employees they're not in IT, but they're just smart and they're just ownership thinkers. They're getting in and solving these problems and everybody loves them. But if your business is making its top line on something, that person is no longer doing that. They're working with IT. So that's where the 2, 400 comes from.

Dan: I can see that, because that happens in our building right now. We have somebody that's in the management position, but oftentimes it gets pulled away because they do have that expertise gets pulled away and I'm sure that that's productivity they could be doing in their expertise. And so I fully get that. I can see that a lot, but getting back to the older computers, I can see where the productivity must go down all the time instead of staying, like we talked to the tip of the spear, if you will.

Sam: Yes. So it's not just the security vulnerability of hanging onto these things because there are going to be hackers looking specifically for the holes in it. It's not even just the productivity, some of it as well as the effect it has on your compliance needs. If you're in an organization or in a field that has certain regulations you have to maintain. If you're running Windows 7 then you're now running outdated software you're no longer compliant. If you have to be HIPAA compliant or PCI compliant or GDPR compliant or all these different compliance needs, there are that the DFARS, and I couldn't even name all of the acronyms that there are for government regulations, but if you're not there, then you think, " Oh, it's okay I'm just hanging onto this computer for a little while longer." When actually you're jeopardizing the organization. Another additional problem, let's say office 2010 is now going away. Well, there's the old adage of if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and so you know what office has been working just fine on my computer for years and years. I don't have a problem with it. But the problem is let's say someone sends you a file, a word file or an Excel spreadsheet that they just worked on and you need to get this information. There's a good chance that your version of office won't even be able to open the new file that you get sent. This is where the difference comes between end of sale and end of life. Microsoft will no longer support office 2010 so they're not going to create an update to say, " Oh, we'll make sure that this older version of word will still be able to open the new word files that are coming out. Or this feature in Excel that everybody's using now for this new special amazing chart." Well, you're going to get that Excel spreadsheet and they won't even open up on your computer, because you haven't made the investment to keep up to date with that technology.

Dan: What you guys do is make sure you stay ahead of that?

Louis: Exactly. Yeah. It just to throw a ploy, not every operating system has been a great experience for people, but overall Windows 10 has been. It has been a huge improvement in services, has been very stable. It's been out for quite some time at this point too. So it's not an unknown.

Dan: Well, and I remember back when we went from XP to Vista, what a horrible thing that was. Oh my gosh. I had two laptops that I was using for my DJ business and we went to that. I'm like, " Oh my good gosh, this is horrible." So gladly they changed that the Windows 7 had all the bugs out. They renamed it Windows 7 and here we are now going on to 10. All right, cool guys. We have one more segment to get to here.

Announcer: Bit-Wizards, what's up our sleeve?

Dan: So what's up your sleeve, Sam?

Sam: Well, today we're talking about patches and updates is something you see on your computer popping up pretty regularly, I'm sure. And if you're like me and most people it pops up and says, " Hey, there are updates ready for your computer." And the first thing you click is ignore and remind me tomorrow I'm in the middle of doing busy things. If I was sitting around waiting for something to do, I wouldn't be sitting at my computer waiting for updates to come in. So I'm working and that pops up. But updates are a pretty important part of maintaining the IT for your organization and for your business.

Louis: Yeah, we often tell is the second most likely vulnerability. The first being social engineering. The training you give people unfortunately giving away the passwords are weaker, but the second is updates. If you don't patch your software... We've envisioned these hackers of all being these brainiacs and that's not true. I mean a lot of them are a little bit lazy and often what they do is they wait for the vulnerability to be published with a patch. In other words, they'll say, " Hey, we have patched this vulnerability with this update." So you think, well, it's updated, however the hackers know not everybody's going to take that and so they realize that's the exploit I'm going to use.

Dan: So they key in on that one?

Louis: Exactly. The moment the update comes out, the vulnerability becomes that much more dangerous because it is now published. And so getting this updates quickly, getting them on there. It was a big item for our managed services for even at Bit-Wizards to make sure that we're not interfering with people's computers, but forcing that issue over time. We get to a certain point where we actually forced to reboot of the machine to make sure that it's happening to protect. So it is an inconvenience, but it is worth taking that time.

Dan: And I've noticed just myself, I'm kind of a layman at this, but if I turn my computer off at home at night when I'm finished with it before it shuts down, it will talk about the updates and it will start doing the updates. Some of these computers in this building, are never really get turned off. So to do that, you'd have to manually go in and get your updates started, I suppose.

Sam: Correct, yes. The vulnerability there, imagine if Ford went on national news and said, " Hey, we just discovered a vulnerability that if you kind of take a screwdriver and jiggle in the lock of any Ford car, it'll pop right open. Then you can take that same screwdriver, jiggle it just a little bit in the ignition and it'll fire right up and it'll disable the alarm." And they announced that to the whole world and then said, " All you got to do is bring in your car to a dealership and we'll swap out that lock for you for free. But you do have to do it." Well, the amount of people are actually going to take the time to go do that versus the ones who aren't means that the criminals are going to walk around with this little screwdriver and try every four door that they see and jiggle that screwdriver, see if it opens. That's exactly what happens with these patches and these updates and it's always a manual process to say, " I have to go look for these updates and patches." Now Microsoft are trying to make it easier. Apple's doing the same thing. I'm sure if you have an iPhone, you probably have already turned on the setting that says, just automatically update all my apps for me. I just don't want to worry about it. But in the PC world, especially in the business world, we push back against that quite a lot because I'm trying to get stuff done. I don't want to have to close out of all these tabs I have open in the browser right now.

Louis: I often notice the slow down as the download is occurring on the machine?

Sam: Oh yes, that's right. It is an inconvenience and Louis brought that up as a point. He said, I know it's inconvenient, but it's necessary. What we've discovered is the opposite of security a lot of times is convenience. The differences between it isn't insecure and secure. It's whether it's convenient or not convenient, and we always tend to go towards the convenient route.

Louis: If you add a deadbolt to your door, you now have to unlock it. It is one more step in that process. And so as we add these additional layers of security, often there is a price to be paid. We try to minimize it. If you're in an organization, there are tools, we use a tool an RMM, it's a remote management tool that allows you to manage those updates and force those reboots so that people don't have to manually do it. But obviously at home you're not going to have that. You're going to have to manually go and get your updates. And when it tells you to restart your machine, just restart your machine.

Sam: And that RMM is important in any kind of business environment. It's one thing, like Louis said at home, you've got your computer, you'll remember to do updates before you go to bed. Like, " Oh, I have to remember to hit that button and let it do its thing overnight." And you come in the morning and it's still doing its thing maybe. But in a business environment, having a centralized way of making sure all of your devices are up to date is critical, because it only takes one of those machines to be out of date to compromise the entire organization. It'd be the equivalent of putting seven deadbolts on the front door. We've made sure that we've got firewalls like crazy and we've got rules in place and policies and everything else, but there's that one computer in the back that we still need it. It's still running windows XP because as that one program we can't get rid of, it's got all our company history on this. So we leave that there and it's the equivalent of locking it down like four knox and then leaving the kitchen window wide open in the back of the building because, well, we've just got to kind of have that thing. And so the RMM tool, the remote management and monitoring tool that Louis is talking about is so critical in a business environment because it's able to take the entire IT infrastructure collectively as a holistically look at the entire thing and say, " Well, I see a vulnerability over here because I've got one PC that for some reason just isn't taking this update." And it can do multiple things. It can try to force the update for us, or it could alert us and just let us know, we've got this one PC over here being stubborn. Oh, we've got this one user over here refusing to reboot their computer and it just needs to reboot to finish these updates. So that's where the RMM comes in because it's able to collect that we work on the entire computer environment as if it's one thing.

Dan: And you guys at Bit-Wizards when you are working with a company like that, you're ensuring that all of those computers get updated and they all are protected instead of somebody with their own business and they think they know what they're doing and oftentimes they ensure, they probably do for the most part, but they don't know all that it encompasses. What vulnerabilities that they're letting themselves into. And you guys do know that?

Louis: Exactly. That RMM tool is very helpful with that. Like we said, we monitor and watch, if you miss an update one weekend, maybe we don't do anything, but you start missing a couple. We're calling and checking in. Why isn't that machine being left on or turned on? Obviously if the machines had been left on, we just do it for them and it's the box is checked. But there's a lot of automated tools, but also I don't always trust them. And it kind of a segue as an analogy. With the backup, nobody pays for backup. You pay for restore, you pay for restore when things go poorly. And so if you have your backup going and you're not checking it, and same thing with the updates. We have to check the manually regularly, look through in the RMM and helps with that tool. I just want to throw out something because sometimes people get this image, the computer, it's funny, in the old days used to point the monitor as the computer. The computer was the box right there. But when you're updating the Microsoft or Apple updates, that is getting all of your firmware updates, the hardware that's getting your operating system updates and certain apps that are built into that, but not for specialty software. So often you have to remember also to maintain relationship with vendors. If you're using Sage or QuickBooks or some specialty piece of software at the doctor's office or wherever.

Dan: That's specific to whatever your organization uses?

Louis: Exactly. So that update cycle is going to be something specific to that vendor. And if it's important to your organization, it's something to be aware of. If you're using SaaS software as a service and you're just paying and using it online. That's the great thing about SaaS. You don't have to worry about that. There's simply you're getting the latest version every time. However, something on prem, something you have to install on your machine, it's something you're going to have to think about custom because it depends on that vendor. So it's not like we can give advice saying every Tuesday that's going to happen. You're going to have to check with your vendor and see when updates are happening, make sure that it's getting done on your software.

Dan: Because they would just do updates as needed. Most likely. Right. When they find a vulnerability, they update.

Louis: Exactly.

Dan: And then you should be updating. Hopefully they're sending you the message so you'll update.

Sam: Correct.

Louis: That's the idea.

Sam: So some applications do that automatically. Like Chrome for windows will automatically update itself. Whenever they come out. They discover a security vulnerability in Chrome. They'll patch it and they'll push it automatically and you might get a notification telling you, " Hey, Chrome just came back and it's a newer version." Or for the most part it just sort of happens in the background and you don't know about it. But as Louis said there, there are updates and there're updates. There are very different kinds of updates and staying on top of all of those important. All the way from firmer updates and firmware is the software that runs the hardware. It's in between hardware and software, so we call it firmware. So if you have a wifi card inside your laptop that connects to the wifi and the manufacturer discovers, " Oh, we need to fix something to make it faster or to enable it to connect to more access points or to fix a vulnerability in there." Then they'll push a firmware update. Those almost always require your computer to reboot because it's got a restart that hardware and put the new software into that piece of hardware in your computer. Then there are operating system software updates and patches and some of those are new features. Microsoft does those every six months, new features. Or it may just be security vulnerabilities. And then as Louis is talking about there, third party patching. Those are any third party applications running on your machine that you just have to be aware of. You've got the Adobe suite on your machine. You need to update Photoshop and illustrator and Acrobat reader and all of these you got to keep those up to date across the board for your organization. For some of those very same reasons we talked about earlier, making sure everybody's compatible, making sure everybody's secure in their organization and that you're staying up to date with the latest features so that if you get emailed this special logo or whatever it was, that you have the ability to open this logo that was emailed to you.

Dan: You know what I've noticed that and because I'm a little leery and I think a lot of people are a little bit leery about opening anything that says you have an update, you need to update this program or that one because we know that people do break into those. They do look like the original thing but maybe not. The one that I was kind of leery is Java. I was wondering if people are breaking into Java and they said you need to update this right away. And I back off, because I think at one time there was somebody that hacked into the Java and said you need update Java and there was a virus or something some years ago. But with something like that, when they send it to you, how do you know that's the real thing?

Louis: Well, typically if it's coming a non-standard way, don't click anything that's coming to the email. You're right to be skeptical, be skeptical. Even when I get things from my bank or something like that, I simply don't click the links within the email. I go to the site itself. So if I bank at the Credit Union and if I get an email that says I need to do something, no problem, I leave the email alone, I go to the website and log in. If I need to do it, it'll tell me there as well. So it's the same with the patching. If you need to patch something you're suspicious but it might be true. Simply go to the site, then you know, you're getting it from the true source and you can download and do what you need to do.

Dan: Good advice. Well I think it's just about time that we have a-

Announcer: Bit-Wizards from the spell book.

Dan: Oh, the spell book. What's on the spell book today?

Louis: All right, well we have a couple of terms we've already been covering. Today's terms is a patch or patching, RMM and single pane of glass. And so we've been talking a lot about updates and that's commonly referred to as a patch or patching, the process of actually doing it. And of course the remote monitoring and management tool is a way to manage that from multiple machines. If you have an organization that you're taking care of and doing that, the process of looking down and seeing who has it is often referred to as a single pane of glass. This is one of the advantages of bit wizards that we standardize the technology so we can use these tools like a remote management tool that we use is Ninja. We have a Fordham analyzer to help manage our firewalls within a single pane of glass. We can look at multiple and monitor them. So.

Dan: Yeah, just kind of clarify the remote management tool. I believe you can sit at your laptop in your business and you can remotely go into other businesses computers and you can actually look and see what's been updated, what hasn't been updated, any virus issues. And you can remotely take a look at their computers rather than physically have to go in and log in and take a look at. Is that what it is?

Sam: That is absolutely right. And that's why that single pane of glass terminology is important to us as we're monitoring these different things. Because rather than me having to look at every single computer and then somehow I don't have to go onsite and kick somebody out of their desk and say, " Hey, go to lunch. I got to get on your computer for five minutes." And then go to the next person, the next person. Instead, I can do it remotely at my desk at the office and I can do all of them at once. I can see across the board, I could look at a Louis's computer or a client that we have up in California. I can look at their computer and say, " Is their hard drive running out of space?" Now, people may be a little concerned with privacy issues there, but even then if I was to try to jump onto their machine, it would let them know, " Hey, Bit-Wizard is requesting access right now." Because we don't want to violate anybody's sense of security there that we're just jumping in their computer and seeing what they're doing. But from the important standpoint of is the hard drive full? Is the memory running out? Is the hard drive starting to slow down? Or does it have all of its updates? Does it have the software that they need installed on there? We can do all of that from a single pane of glass, a single website that we look into and see all of our clients, some thousands of endpoints and different devices all across the country, all across the different networks and stuff. And we can see is there a security vulnerability that just came out and if there is, can we push a patch to all of them at once and patch that hole so that we can make sure that none of our clients have to worry about this?

Dan: You know... No, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, because oftentimes when people hear you talk like that, they might be thinking, " Oh now that could be a security breach." But obviously you guys wouldn't you do this, you make sure everything is secure from your end their end. What would that be like a some kind of opportunity to get in there with your log in, or would it be just as secure as them logging in? Is that correct?

Louis: Absolutely. Yeah. It's just as secure. We have that credential and the security as if it's a VPN. It's like we're on their network, but also, the RMM isn't just about getting onto the individual machine. We don't even have to initiate often, it reports information back. So we can go to a specific screen and see which machines have gotten their updates and which ones haven't, so we're not on the machine. You're just looking at reporting setup. This one didn't check in, in 15 days. We need to do something about that and go on down the list.

Dan: It's like roll call?

Louis: Like roll call. Exactly. We still don't have to jump into each machine, which we can do and that's more, we usually tend to do that when there's a specific problem. It's often they're actually asking us to do that. This doesn't work, that doesn't work, and then we're actually jumping on the machine. When it comes more for alerts or looking as a whole, we're not really looking at each one, but we'll have alerts that says your hard drives getting close to full. Then it'll pop off an alert and we'll look at that. Okay, let's go talk to them or look at that machine or see what's going on.

Dan: And update their memory if necessary.

Louis: Exactly. Add there the hard drive. You mentioned that earlier about upgrading actually a tip on the previous, I would say if you buy a new machine, if you get a laptop, certainly try to get the best you can. They're much harder to upgrade. You don't get as many opportunities, there's usually some, you may be able to upgrade the memory or increase the storage in some sense, but it's usually a much more of a challenge. With a desktop tower machine, they're much more upgradable. So maybe you could save a little money and then in a year if you need another terabyte SSD drive for additional storage, you can buy it or if you need more memory, you can put it in much stuff or on a laptop.

Dan: Oh really? Okay. I didn't know that.

Sam: Yeah, I would say my Black Friday advice to anybody, especially if you're buying for your business, is don't go for the cheapest. If you're trying to decide between two that look a lot alike and one is a little more expensive than the other, it's more than likely worth spending that little bit of extra money because once you got it, it's kind of a done deal. There are a few things you can upgrade, but typically it's more expensive to even try to upgrade it than it is to do it at the time. And so a good one for that would be, let's say for your business, you see some deals, Bestbuys is doing some deals this weekend on PCs. If it's for your business, make sure it has Windows 10 professional on it, not home because you shouldn't really be using a home for your company. You should be using Windows 10 professional for your company. It has the features you need for business purposes. And you might look at it and go, " Well it's only a $20 difference between these two PCs." But if you were to go buy Windows 10 professional app you buy that PC, now that's $100 difference. And so a lot of times it just makes sense to spend a little bit of cash now, because you want that thing to last you through these next three or four years. The life cycle of that device, especially with memory and hard drives, those are so hard to upgrade on the laptops.

Louis: Yeah. And the productivity costs we were talking about, by machine it's great little bit less today but it's still top of the line. But in two years it's an older machine and suddenly you're paying a price for it. And if you'd simply gotten a little bit faster, a little bit more memory, a little bit more storage that you can extend the life-

Dan: And you'll probably do that anyway later. Right?

Louis: Absolutely. It will cost you more money.

Dan: Well guys you got to wrap it up. Usually, you have somebody you'd like to highlight. You have somebody to highlight.

Louis: Absolutely. So we'd like to send a big shout out and thank you to assistant fire chief Mark Anderson, the firemen, paramedics and administrative team out there at South Walton and fire department in Santa Rosa, County. These first responders are critical to protecting and serving our community. We love South Walton and fire department, because they have embraced technology to improve to ensure that lifesaving services are delivered without a hitch, Bit-Wizards not only provides managed IT services for them, but we also have built their website and built a custom application called DES to manage the fire department. And we have helped streamline with a custom software to manage their beach fire permitting and lifeguard and CPR training for the public. So we really want to thank them for allowing us to help them and serve them.

Dan: Absolutely. Louis and Sam, thank you so much for coming in. Bit -Wizards. Tip Of The Wand